With a lot of the app features dependant on categorising the dozens debit card transactions, what are your thoughts on the fact that many people, like myself, use a credit card for their day to day purchases for the extra protection it provides?
Hey @Rhydian, I actually think this is where Dozens could separate itself for certain customers (like me and you), who do most of our spending on credit cards.
It’s always been the issue for Monzo or Starling, because all of the new features that are introduced, the spending insights, the budgeting stuff, all relies on the account being the primary spend account.
So a huge chunk of those apps are useless to the likes of myself (and you), because our spend goes elsewhere.
I’ve seen people ask for a pot that automatically moves money from your balance, to a “credit card pot” whenever you spend on it. But for me, I move all of my money into savings at the start of the month, and then move it back when I need to pay a bill (so this wouldn’t work for me).
I honestly don’t see how an integration can work (short of simply displaying your current credit card balance in your current account app).
But… Dozens has the potential to link your overall wealth together. From current account, to savings and investments etc. It feels more “wholesome” than a simple current account.
Despite the “integrations” from both Starling and Monzo, I still don’t feel like they are very good, so I’m hoping Dozens can bridge this gap, and make it all seamless.
As for the credit card issue, is there a way that you would like to see it work?
Yes i agree @Nick. It’s a shame we would miss out on many of the app’s features. If dozens eventually offered their own credit card, then presumably they could use its data in a similar way to their debit card, thus solving the integration issue and demonstrating that dozens is a comprehensive banking solution.
I’ve seen people ask for a Monzo or Starling credit card as well for the same reasons.
I guess it depends what people are currently using, but I think any of the new FinTechs would struggle to topple the best credit cards (AMEX for me).
So even if they had one, I doubt I’d simply use it for the budgeting type features.
Although I’m sure plenty of others would
This is a very interesting point. Do you know exactly what those protections are? Have you ever had to make a claim based on this? I only ask because I wonder whether the costs of credit cards offset these benefits?
I’ve done the same in the past, so I’m not criticising this approach at all. However, I wonder whether the benefits of much better tracking (since my credit card does NOT offer me a reasonable app) and budgeting, plus encouragement to save, will quickly wipe out any cost of losing this coverage.
While there are many who find a way to use credit cards to their advantage, these cards only currently exist because there are a much greater number who do not - and that is why borrowing on credit cards (plus personal loans and car finance) has risen above £200 billion.
Yes @robert I have a fair idea of the protections so therefore I am considerably more comfortable spending with my credit card rather than my debit card. It was also invaluable in helping me build a decent credit score in order to obtain a mortgage.
I automatically pay off my credit card in full every month so incur no costs. While I realise that some people build up debt, it’s not a reason for others not to use a credit card.
Your point regarding credit card apps not offering effective tracking solutions was precisely why I suggested a dozens credit card would be advantageous, although I realise that this might contradict your tagline of ‘we only make money when you do’!
I am the same, rewards from my credit card are great, so I miss out on the categorisation usually and just have the Direct Debit once a month.
I have a credit card too. However it’s now only used for online purchases or bigger items. I was very naively led to believe that I would have more consumer protection for my purchase credit card purchase than I would it the same purchase was made using a debit card payment. If my debit cards offered more protection I’d do away with the credit card altogether.
Like @Rhydian, I also do the majority of my spending via credit cards for the extra benefits it provides such as the interest free period, cashback, free extended warranty insurance as well as extra consumer protection.
This extra protection (over and above the voluntary chargeback scheme that debit cards operate) is the legal/statutory protection offered by Section 75 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. MSE’s explanation of its benefits are here
I understand that the vast majority of people in the UK actually pay their credit card off in full each month. They are still profitable customers for banks as (as with debit cards) they receive a cut of the fees retailers are charged when they accept a card payment.
You may want to join the waiting list for a Jaja Credit Card who are preparing to launch such a credit card. I’ve been fortunate to get one already while they are beta testing
As per my post above, credit cards do offer more consumer protection for items costing over £100.
I’ve normally used credit cards too. I pay it off in full every month but before the challenger banks I found it easier to budget that way too.
Section 75 protection (for anything over £100 as said above) is a great feature. You don’t even need to put the whole amount on the credit card to take advantage of it.
It’s also useful when travelling (car rentals, hotel bookings etc.)
I’ve been on the JAJA waitlist for a while. I have Tandem now (which also offers cashback) but I’ve also seen Tymit which looks similar.
The Jaja app is much better than the Tandem one (which I also have). Haven’t heard of Tymit having actually issued any cards yet
The JaJa app is wonderful!
It seems my salary isn’t high enough for Jaja
The link in their invite email said a minimum personal income of 40k, which I haven’t quite reached yet. I decided to try applying anyway, once I put my salary and household income (the same amount ) they said I didn’t meet their criteria.
This is going to be down to their low-risk model they are aiming for, which opens a whole other can of worms.
In my current job, we are looking at using technologies such as Open Banking, to accurately assess the risk of applicants for financial services. I know there are a number of companies doing the same, but I am doubtful this is what Jaja is using.
You’re not missing out on something life-changing Nathan @Albatross , but it is in a sense game-changing. I was heavily into my Virgin Atlantic Amex & Visa pairing, but switched to British Airways Amex as I frequently fly to Scotland and back for work. Looking at the rewards, I’d be far better off doing a cash back card though.
What card do you currently use, and why?
To be honest, even if I’d met their initial criteria, I probably would have failed the credit check due to my current relationship with credit
I currently have a HSBC credit card, purely because they gave me one when I opened a student account with them, a barclaycard because I got a 0% on purchases for 1 year deal with them (but failed to pay it all off before that ran out), and a Tandem card which I got mostly just so I could try out a credit card from a company that felt a little more modern… although they are the one I’ve had the most issues with tbh.
These are all pretty basic purchase credit cards, I’ve not had any credit cards with additional benefits like cashback or rewards.
Unfortunately I have been very very bad at managing my credit use up to now so all 3 of those are close to maxed out, and I have used almost half of my balance on my PayPal credit account. Working on it though, I’ve got a debt avalanche plan sorted on undebt.it now, I just have to try and stick to that now
This is the most important thing.
I strongly believe from experience that student financial services are a terrible way of getting money management experience at such a crucial time, but without wanting to talk politics, are a necessary evil for many of us.
Keep it up Nathan
Sorry to hear that @Albatross - these are complex issues to deal with but it sounds like you have a plan which is great. I do hope we can help you manage this in some way.
I had not come across undebt.it personally and it looks interesting. I wonder if you’d be willing to review it as a tool for the community?
I came across it while googling for debt reduction tools and some site I ended up on listed it as the best free option. I have no idea how it compares to other tools to be honest, it has been pretty useful and intuitive so far though